NBA Christmas games...

[R13]

DING we have a winner. Kobe cannot do it all by himself. Nash cannot do it all by himself. Jordan didn't do it all by himself. The point is no matter who was with him or wasn't, Kobe has gotten it done 5 more times than what Nash has.

Wow. So you say he can't do it without someone else, but then say that someone else doesn't matter and it was Kobe doing it 5 times? Nice one.

[Biggin]

so its not possible Dirk got accustomed to the NBA and began playing to his full potential, Nash is the reason. okkaayy. If Nash was the reason Dirk was great then, how the hell can you explain his performance NOW? He has put up better numbers AFTER Nash left. If Nash was the reason, as you suggest (which is totally wrong and dumb, cant believe you are sticking with that), wouldnt Dirk be average after Nash?


Gasol was "soft" and weak before he came to LA, he was far from a top 4 C before he came to LA. Kobe made Gasol into a top C.

The point was that Nash HAD an elite big guy and still didnt win anything. As soon as Kobe got an elite big man again, he started winning titles.


and you dont think playing with Kobe helped Shaq as much as the reverse? How many titles did Shaq win in Orlando?

Tim Donahuge reffed game 3, and your point is? It never once came out that he influenced any games whatsoever. Suns fans love to say that but they clam up when you point out Game 6 WITH Amare and Diaw and they still lost. Or game 1 IN PHOENIX when the Spurs won. If you think its some big conspiracy, then why didnt they let PHX win? the NBA HATED when the Spurs won titles, the Finals drew terrible ratings and was considered boring. If the NBA was truly trying to rig the Finals, Suns would have beat Spurs because they were more "exciting" and had the "MVP" Nash.

[R13]

He got accustomed that fast and more than doubled his numbers in that amount of time? Or was it just benefitting from on of the best passers ever dishing him the ball? I don't know where you're getting that I'm saying after Nash they are nothing, I saying they are better after playing with Nash and it's pretty ridiculous to argue otherwise. Numbers speak for themselves, with multiple players he's played with as big as Dirk and Amare and other players playing with him over the years and playing now. Most in the NBA will tell you this, from coaches to players who played with/against him..he makes his teammates better.

He's still soft and weak, what's your point? One he's not bullying all of these people, he just has great ability to score shooting/moving, still doesn't mean he's not soft. Where in his numbers is he better than he was in Memphis? He was a top center then, very underrated, but is still basically the same player. I haven't even looked up the numbers, but I'd bet they are better/same when he was in Memphis.

Didn't you just say Gasol wasn't elite coming in, but now it's LA GOT an elite C?

Sure, doesn't change the fact he was the most dominating player in the league, his size guaranteed that regardless.

He didn't spend nearly a year in jail for being an innocent bystander, are you really sitting here and saying he didn't influence games or had a hand in it? He's still facing charges in Arizona for that game too. I never said it was an NBA conspiracy, I'm saying it was one for his personal gain. The only one that he mentioned the NBA had a hand in was the Kings/Lakers series in 02 when he said the NBA influenced it so the Lakers would continue on for their benefit, which anyone who watched that series can see where there's a lot of validity with that. He refed it, facing charges for it still. The whole bench clearing thing was bull****, it was against the rules, but a dumb rule nonetheless. But since it was still against the rules, I can't argue much against it no matter how incredibly stupid it is...a fan of another team would do the same and it was blasted by most when it happened.

[Biggin]

He got accustomed that fast and more than doubled his numbers in that amount of time? Or was it just benefitting from on of the best passers ever dishing him the ball? I don't know where you're getting that I'm saying after Nash they are nothing, I saying they are better after playing with Nash and it's pretty ridiculous to argue otherwise. Numbers speak for themselves, with multiple players he's played with as big as Dirk and Amare and other players playing with him over the years and playing now. Most in the NBA will tell you this, from coaches to players who played with/against him..he makes his teammates better.

WTF? So you are trying to give Dirk's success NOW to Nash? Thats absurd. Its also silly to say that Dirk only became great because of Nash, look at his stats post-Nash, they are even better than they ever were wit Nash. And yes, its highly probable that Dirk got accustomed to the league and used to the style of play and played better. Its not as if Nash is a magic elf that makes players awesome.

Whats ridiculous is trying to convince people that Dirk and Amare are as great as they are now because of Nash. Nash helped Dirk during his years in Dallas, of course im not disputing that. But trying to convince people that Dirk's greatness came because he played with Nash is silly.

Bruce Bowen made his teammates better, but he doesnt deserve credit for TD's success AFTER Bowen retired.

He's still soft and weak, what's your point? One he's not bullying all of these people, he just has great ability to score shooting/moving, still doesn't mean he's not soft. Where in his numbers is he better than he was in Memphis? He was a top center then, very underrated, but is still basically the same player. I haven't even looked up the numbers, but I'd bet they are better/same when he was in Memphis.

Didn't you just say Gasol wasn't elite coming in, but now it's LA GOT an elite C?

No, he was not a top 5 C in MEM. His offensive game was nowhere near as polished, he played no defense and his rebounding was lesser. His rebounding numbers are considerably better, never averaged double digits til he got to LA, more assists, more offensive rebounds, a higher overall FG % in LA than MEM, higher offensive rating, a higher efficiency %, and a higher win shares per 48 minutes. Theres no doubting Gasol got better when he got to LA.
But the point is, as soon as Kobe got another great big man, he started to win titles.
Nash had Amare and never even made the Finals.

He didn't spend nearly a year in jail for being an innocent bystander, are you really sitting here and saying he didn't influence games or had a hand in it? He's still facing charges in Arizona for that game too. I never said it was an NBA conspiracy, I'm saying it was one for his personal gain. The only one that he mentioned the NBA had a hand in was the Kings/Lakers series in 02 when he said the NBA influenced it so the Lakers would continue on for their benefit, which anyone who watched that series can see where there's a lot of validity with that. He refed it, facing charges for it still. The whole bench clearing thing was bull****, it was against the rules, but a dumb rule nonetheless. But since it was still against the rules, I can't argue much against it no matter how incredibly stupid it is...a fan of another team would do the same and it was blasted by most when it happened.

So, a biased Suns fan believes something was fishy, despite their being absolutely no evidence that the series in question is tainted. Yes, he said that bout the LA/SAC series, and if you follow that logic, wouldnt the NBA want PHX to win, because of the style of play/Nash? They only time he admitted to calling a game a certain way was because of NBA influence. Never once has anything ever came about that said he influenced any other games.

thats called being a sore loser. of course the Spurs didnt win it on great defense and clutch play from Tony Parker, it was because a ref who has zero ties to San Antonio was gambling on the games and trying to determine the outcome.

And because YOU don't agree with a rule, its BS. The rule is to prevent on court brawls and Amare and Diaw absolutely left the bench area. So I have a hard time feeling sorry for PHX when they blatantly broke the rules.

[1inStripes]

Gasol is an elite PF, not an elite C. And you know what I meant above. By utilizing help, Kobe has 5 titles, Nash and his help over the years have none.

[CoeburnCane]

*YAWN*

As has been said, wake me up when the playoffs get here. It doesn't matter if you struggle in December, it matters if you struggle in May/June.

We all knew the Heat were supposed to be really good, and they're just now living up to it. The Lakers have shaken up their roster a little in the past few weeks, and will likely find a groove again later this season heading into the playoffs. There's still 50+ games left for that to happen...which is why NO ONE needs to be in panic mode right now.

Just go back to sleep, wait until round 1 of the playoffs start, then start analyzing--because analysis now projecting to May/June just makes you look silly.

[R13]

WTF? So you are trying to give Dirk's success NOW to Nash? Thats absurd. Its also silly to say that Dirk only became great because of Nash, look at his stats post-Nash, they are even better than they ever were wit Nash. And yes, its highly probable that Dirk got accustomed to the league and used to the style of play and played better. Its not as if Nash is a magic elf that makes players awesome.

Whats ridiculous is trying to convince people that Dirk and Amare are as great as they are now because of Nash. Nash helped Dirk during his years in Dallas, of course im not disputing that. But trying to convince people that Dirk's greatness came because he played with Nash is silly.

Bruce Bowen made his teammates better, but he doesnt deserve credit for TD's success AFTER Bowen retired.



No, he was not a top 5 C in MEM. His offensive game was nowhere near as polished, he played no defense and his rebounding was lesser. His rebounding numbers are considerably better, never averaged double digits til he got to LA, more assists, more offensive rebounds, a higher overall FG % in LA than MEM, higher offensive rating, a higher efficiency %, and a higher win shares per 48 minutes. Theres no doubting Gasol got better when he got to LA.
But the point is, as soon as Kobe got another great big man, he started to win titles.
Nash had Amare and never even made the Finals.






So, a biased Suns fan believes something was fishy, despite their being absolutely no evidence that the series in question is tainted. Yes, he said that bout the LA/SAC series, and if you follow that logic, wouldnt the NBA want PHX to win, because of the style of play/Nash? They only time he admitted to calling a game a certain way was because of NBA influence. Never once has anything ever came about that said he influenced any other games.

thats called being a sore loser. of course the Spurs didnt win it on great defense and clutch play from Tony Parker, it was because a ref who has zero ties to San Antonio was gambling on the games and trying to determine the outcome.

And because YOU don't agree with a rule, its BS. The rule is to prevent on court brawls and Amare and Diaw absolutely left the bench area. So I have a hard time feeling sorry for PHX when they blatantly broke the rules.

Where did I say anything like that? I'm saying what you just said, Nash's hand in it and helped it. You sit here and say that, then say it's far-fetched to say Nash had anything to do with it. And no, sorry, your stats just don't explode in that amount of time in just one year - like I said, it's no coincidence players have much better numbers when Nash comes in and runs the show.

Lol Bruce Bowen? That's the poorest example I've ever seen, maybe showed them how to knee and kick people and slide under them after they shot, that's about it. A SF defender like Bowen didn't make anyone really better, let alone anything like what Nash did. Especially with one of the cheapest players to step on the court.


Pau Gasol - Los Angeles Lakers - Career Statistics - NBA - Yahoo! Sports
Career stats right there and there's nothing considerably better, actually having a lot of career points in Memphis. There's nothing there that says he "no doubt gotten better" since he's been in LA, not even close. He's either playing the same or a tiny bit better in one place or the other with his numbers. I watched Pau all during his Memphis years, a lot in person too hell even met the guy, he's not really a different player in LA, far from it actually. Really about the same and what he has improved in just comes with another year in the NBA.


Absolutely no evidence? Riiiight. Any game the guy ref'd has now been called into question and like I said, he's facing charges for that game in Arizona - to pretend like there's nothing there is beyond ridiculous. Actually he didn't admit to the ones with the NBA, which the only one he said the NBA had a hand in was the Lakers/Kings series and he just said that two refs fixed the series from pressure from the NBA.

Riiiiight. No suspensions and injuries to Nash and you'd be singing a different tune, PHX takes that series easily.


When the players are not involved in the altercation in any way, an altercation caused by one of several cheap hits by the other team, that they didn't get any no more than several feet from the bench not touching a single person..then yeah, it's bull**** to suspend them. Only Spurs fan didn't agree with it and that was the only ones, that move was blasted by everyone in basketball at the time.

[Biggin]

Where did I say anything like that? I'm saying what you just said, Nash's hand in it and helped it. You sit here and say that, then say it's far-fetched to say Nash had anything to do with it. And no, sorry, your stats just don't explode in that amount of time in just one year - like I said, it's no coincidence players have much better numbers when Nash comes in and runs the show.

You're right, but you made it seem like Nash is still responsible for Dirk's success which is absurd.

Lol Bruce Bowen? That's the poorest example I've ever seen, maybe showed them how to knee and kick people and slide under them after they shot, that's about it. A SF defender like Bowen didn't make anyone really better, let alone anything like what Nash did. Especially with one of the cheapest players to step on the court.

Bowen made everyone he played with better, on and off the court. No matter what you think of his style of play, Bowen is a super intelligent guy who knew more about basketball than 99% of NBA players. Yes, Bowen was a great teammate and made his teammates better.

Pau Gasol - Los Angeles Lakers - Career Statistics - NBA - Yahoo! Sports
Career stats right there and there's nothing considerably better, actually having a lot of career points in Memphis. There's nothing there that says he "no doubt gotten better" since he's been in LA, not even close. He's either playing the same or a tiny bit better in one place or the other with his numbers. I watched Pau all during his Memphis years, a lot in person too hell even met the guy, he's not really a different player in LA, far from it actually. Really about the same and what he has improved in just comes with another year in the NBA.

Did you even read what I said? I posted all the stats what have went up. He all the sudden started pulling down double digits rebounds, something he NEVER did in MEM, and all of his efficency numbers have went up. Whether you want to admit it or not, the bulk of Gasol's stats have improved in LA.
Pau Gasol NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com

and HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I said the same thing about Dirk and you said no, it was only Nash. So whats it gonna be? A player sees an increase in stats, and it cant possibly be getting accustomed to the league, espeically for a young guy. (thats a bad point anyway, Gasol came in the league with great stats but you just proved my point about Dirk's early years, thanks)

Absolutely no evidence? Riiiight. Any game the guy ref'd has now been called into question and like I said, he's facing charges for that game in Arizona - to pretend like there's nothing there is beyond ridiculous. Actually he didn't admit to the ones with the NBA, which the only one he said the NBA had a hand in was the Lakers/Kings series and he just said that two refs fixed the series from pressure from the NBA.

Riiiiight. No suspensions and injuries to Nash and you'd be singing a different tune, PHX takes that series easily.

Whatever, you are still being the worst kind of loser, one that whines and cries. Donague didnt **** PHX and SAS beat PHX straight up. Ill say this ONE MORE TIME, what about Game 1 IN PHX? The game with all the Suns roster at home and they still got beat. So stop cryin dude, its not a good look.

When the players are not involved in the altercation in any way, an altercation caused by one of several cheap hits by the other team, that they didn't get any no more than several feet from the bench not touching a single person..then yeah, it's bull**** to suspend them. Only Spurs fan didn't agree with it and that was the only ones, that move was blasted by everyone in basketball at the time.

Again, they knew the rules, they broke the rules. You need a tissue? If I know what the rules are and STILL break them, are you gonna whine for me? Its a very simple issue and I cannot believe you are still arguing this. ALL NBA players know they cannot leave the bench. Amare and Diaw left the bench. This is not a new punishment, the punishment is known. They knew what they were doing and suffered the consequences.

Horry got suspended for three games too, so its not as if it didnt hurt SAS as well.

[Biggin]

are you ready to end this?


in the series in question, the Spurs had 133 fouls called against them. Phoenix on the other hand, had 123 fouls called against them.

So its pretty hard to cry corruption or conspiracy when the Spurs had MORE fouls called against them


i hate the suns, they are one of SAS's biggest rivals. them, dallas and LA.

[steer]

I wouldn't mind seeing a marathon of NBA on Christmas day.
I like Van Gundy's idea to have them start at midnight and complete 10 games the entire day.